This is interesting. Did write out a nice paragraph about this, but it came out terribly. To sum up, I think it's a terrible idea, reeks of imperialism - freedom surely means choice! Anyone agree with Sarkozy?
What an interesting stance to take, even for such a right wing figure! Of course, the veil is a symbol of debasement. It's a difficult situation, and one I don't feel qualified to comment on. Oh France.
Well, of course my answer is NO ISS WRONG. But it's far more complex then this. Since I value actual experience over conjecture, I just don't feel qualified to talk about it in the depth that such a humanitarian situation requires. after all, if you take the notion of experience out of humanity, , you're left with sweeping judgements, much like the one made by Sarkozy. Surely you must conceed your 'mind blank' is indicative of the complexity of the situation?
The stance is somewhat logical if we consider the irrefutable, but to implement something in such a resolutely heavy-handed way is of course foolish at best. As you (insightfully) point out, the act is intrinsically imperialistic, but more than this, it can be schematically associated with very real and prevalent notions of white/western superiority.
It's worth noting that Sarkozy is a bit of a tit, too.
I'd say Obama's just found a worthy competitor in the first-to-get-assassinated stakes.
Also, I think it's a load of bollocks.
Sure the veil debases females and is used to control and subjugate etc etc, but in the end it should be upto the individual to wear and do what they like, as long as it doesn't impinge too much on others.
In the end, all of these things - religion, crime, war - should be eradicated through convincing and logical argument, not through draconian jurisdiction which creates as many problems as it cures.
I like the comment by 'twiglette' saying "The trouble is, that we could start to ban all sorts of dress we don't quite like - for instance, punk, hippy, even Ascot !" - Like the whole banning the veil is a given and the real problem is with the possibility of banning other (white) clothing styles.
"In the end, all of these things - religion, crime, war - should be eradicated through convincing and logical argument, not through draconian jurisdiction" ?? Indeed one day we'll educate all these damn heathens!
Of course (without mind control) you're never going to eradicate any human impulse, especially such primitive instincts as violence, tribal mentality and religious belief.
But still, you would hope that policies concerning the whole population would represent the constituent groups as fully as possible. It seems that if the French government does choose to ban the veil it will cause a huge amount of unnecessary turbulence between ethnic / religious groups.
Obviously all these things are never going to have a simple answer - I suppose that's one of the attractions of religious fundamentalism.
What an interesting stance to take, even for such a right wing figure! Of course, the veil is a symbol of debasement. It's a difficult situation, and one I don't feel qualified to comment on. Oh France.
ReplyDeleteInsightful thanks.
ReplyDeleteWell, of course my answer is NO ISS WRONG. But it's far more complex then this. Since I value actual experience over conjecture, I just don't feel qualified to talk about it in the depth that such a humanitarian situation requires. after all, if you take the notion of experience out of humanity, , you're left with sweeping judgements, much like the one made by Sarkozy. Surely you must conceed your 'mind blank' is indicative of the complexity of the situation?
ReplyDeleteThe stance is somewhat logical if we consider the irrefutable, but to implement something in such a resolutely heavy-handed way is of course foolish at best. As you (insightfully) point out, the act is intrinsically imperialistic, but more than this, it can be schematically associated with very real and prevalent notions of white/western superiority.
It's worth noting that Sarkozy is a bit of a tit, too.
I'd say Obama's just found a worthy competitor in the first-to-get-assassinated stakes.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I think it's a load of bollocks.
Sure the veil debases females and is used to control and subjugate etc etc, but in the end it should be upto the individual to wear and do what they like, as long as it doesn't impinge too much on others.
In the end, all of these things - religion, crime, war - should be eradicated through convincing and logical argument, not through draconian jurisdiction which creates as many problems as it cures.
I like the comment by 'twiglette' saying "The trouble is, that we could start to ban all sorts of dress we don't quite like - for instance, punk, hippy, even Ascot !"
- Like the whole banning the veil is a given and the real problem is with the possibility of banning other (white) clothing styles.
"In the end, all of these things - religion, crime, war - should be eradicated through convincing and logical argument, not through draconian jurisdiction" ?? Indeed one day we'll educate all these damn heathens!
ReplyDeleteYeah, I put that in just for you.
ReplyDeleteOf course (without mind control) you're never going to eradicate any human impulse, especially such primitive instincts as violence, tribal mentality and religious belief.
But still, you would hope that policies concerning the whole population would represent the constituent groups as fully as possible. It seems that if the French government does choose to ban the veil it will cause a huge amount of unnecessary turbulence between ethnic / religious groups.
Obviously all these things are never going to have a simple answer - I suppose that's one of the attractions of religious fundamentalism.